We've got some updates going into effect very soon that we wanted to let everyone know about.
To reiterate one thing so no one freaks out too much, what we call positive updates are NOT constrained to our rule of only being done in January and June. A positive update is something that won't affect anyone negatively, and only adds something positive to the sport, so there is really no reason to delay them.
Gamblers Q Values:
Starting June 1st, there is going to be an update to the amount of points you can possibly earn in Gamblers. What we've been seeing a lot of is that people are viewing gamblers more as a way to get Q's, and less of what it is meant to be, which is a challenge to see how many points you can get.
To give everyone a little more incentive to actually utilize the class and challenge themselves we are adding the ability to earn more than the standard 10 Q points per run.
For the Elite level you will earn 10 Q Points for a run between 50 and 64 points
For runs between 65-74 you will earn 15 Q points
and for runs above at or above 75 points you will earn a 20 Point Q.
This update will happen eventually in all the software that's available, but luckily this is something that we can handle here in the office as well. So don't be upset if you get to a trial after June 1st and it doesn't reflect the correct number of points, when those results are sent to NADAC we will update them before they go into your records.
Standard Course Times
We have decided to update the way that Standard Course time (SCT) is calculated in order to make it a more equitable system across different jump heights, and to better reflect all dogs currently competing.
Currently the files that get sent to NADAC only contain the runs that were Q's. This is what we have historically based SCT off of in the past.
Starting June 1st the software programs will be updated to send us ALL run info, including non qualifying runs.
We will then take this increased data set to be used in the future for calculating SCT for all classes.
The SCT going forward based off this new data will be a percentage based system. For instance in Regular you might need to run in the top 50% in order to qualify. That 50% number is completely fictional at the moment, as we need to see the data coming in first, and see how it aligns with our current times to decide on a number that is reasonable. This will take some time, but we wanted to let everyone know about it now as it will be continually discussed over the next year.
Ideally the first SCT adjustment won't take place until June of 2022, in order to give us enough time to get enough data sent to us, as well as review it.
But, we are also aware that if we start receiving data and it appears that a certain jumping height is being severely disproportionate in regards to SCT in comparison to another height then we could make adjustments sooner. For example if we get 4 months into this data gathering phase and find that only 20% of dogs at the 16 inch jump height are making time, while 70% of dogs at the 12 inch jump height are making time, that would be alarming and cause for a quicker update for those 16 inch jump heights.
Happy trialing!
Any chance tou would take a look at the 20” JMP DRI?
Maybe It’s ok, but seems tight.
DRI is set by the top percentage of dogs, so DRI is actually something we’re very confident in since that is based on the fastest dogs whose data we definitely have :)
Has any thought been given to the gamble line being adjusted according to level (novice, open, elite)? I’ve heard several exhibitors express frustration at the distance challenge being the same for their novice dog as it is for the elite dogs. Just passing on feedback.
I agree Lee Anne... since i have been trialing in 2021, the DRI's are very low. This past weekend, I think there were only a very very few (if any)DRI over 100 for the 16/20 class. ( I dont know small dogs DRIS) . The past few trials I have been too, it has been tight. Revolution is very fast and didnt get any this weekend and only a few for the year..... I dont know if course design is just tighter with more turns that before, but I do see a pattern thus far at the trials I have attended in 21.
Yes, I think we are pretty speedy and we can pull off Reg and T&G sometimes, but Jumpers and actually Tunn times are eating our lunch.🤣
I read Chris' comment about Gamblers being "more as a way to get Q's, and less of what it is meant to be, which is a challenge to see how many points you can get."
I find it hard to justify me sending my dog to complete an additional 2-10 obstacles for points when we can earn "For every full second UNDER Standard Course Time (SCT) The team will earn an additional 2 points, with a maximum of 10 points earned via time."
Maybe its because I have a 9 year old small dog (approximately 3.2 yps) or because I play games in other venues with a "sudden death" clause for being over time, but I really see Gamblers as a challenge to design the shortest course for us to be done and be gone (with the ten point bonus). Being greedy has a penalty.
I look forward to watching teams going for the additional points now available. I wish them good luck.
It will be interesting to see what the data reveals regarding SCT for the different jump heights.
With my old dogs, I do the same, get my points and get out. Both are not very big dogs. With my younger dog (although she is now almost 6!), I can do a few more obstacles and get some extra points, but I don't see her getting 75 points in the allotted time, especially since you max out on obstacles that you can do
Chris is it even possible to get that many points seeing as you max out on the number of times you can do an obstacle? I guess if you were able to do every obstacle at the max and do the gamble, it would be a total of 83 points but boy would that be a chore to be able to design a course like that....
Oh yeah definitely possible.
All of the numbers were derived from the results we've gotten. And then it was the top percentages. Think along the same lines as DRI. If you're getting 75+ points in Elite you're in the top 10% of dogs in the world. It's not supposed to be easy, that's for sure :)
Does the change for Gambler Qs only pertain to Elite or are there going to be similar opportunities in Novice and Open to earn more than a 10 point Q?
It will happen for Open and Novice as well.
Just take the above numbers and drop them by 10 for Open, and then drop another 10 for Novice
So maybe I am confused, but does this mean SCT changes with every course, every trial? Ie there is no standard course time in the sense that it currently is (you can see in advance how fast you have to run). That instead, from that trial, the top 50% fastest dogs Q and the slowest 50% don't (just using your 50/50 example). So you don't know if you Q'd until after the class is over? I feel like I must be understanding this wrong, as that does not seem like a 'positive change' to basically ensure 50% of dogs don't Q.
No that's definitely not how it works!
Every year we take the previous years results and calculate the SCT from those results.
The issue, is that the results we normally get, only have the Q's. So we're getting incomplete data essentially. Which is why we normally take the numbers we get, and then add in an extra margin, to account for any runs we weren't seeing that weren't Q's.
The past couple of years we haven't needed to update SCT, because it's right on track with what the current SCT is.
Next year, or sooner if we notice there is an alarming issue, the SCT will mostly like change because of the extra data we're receiving.
Knowing it is still June, so early in this, once the softwares are updated will score pages posted at trials show the extra point Qs or will they only show once NADAC has uploaded points?
They show at trials. That should have started Jun 1... have you had score sheets not showing it?
I have not held a trial with Gamblers since before Jun 1 so I cannot see if AU is working correctly.
Jo had a 68 point Gamblers at GOAL this past weekend. Score sheets and emailed results that came show a Q10. It should be 15, correct?
Sorry, Karla, I was under the understanding that AU would have it updated as of Jun 1 but I stand corrected... Eventually it will be updated where the software will show the correct score at the trial but for now, it is done on our end. Sorry about the confusion!
I don’t think it is AU that GOAL uses. You might double check.
Awesome that Jo got a Q15!
Hi Jimmy. It did show up on the scores at the Addicted trial in MA.
AU should have the update in place.
The results I have seen coming in have the increased points listed.
The other programs haven't been updated yet, but the good news is that I am still able to get those increased points added since the programs list the amount of points earned. So it will be a bit more of a delay, but you will still receive those increased point values when it gets into your point history.
Thank you Chris!